Hi everyone,
due to
popular demand, this thread will be able to host your offers and requests for 2nd hand XMG, SCHENKER and TUXEDO laptops.
Offering such a thread is a bit of a slippery slope. Market places like eBay have evolved over years and follow many legal customer protection guidelines. In this thread, we do not have any commercial interest in the buying and selling of 2nd hand products - we merely try to help to connect users with each other under our naïve assumption that people will be fair to each other and not abuse the mutual trust that this platform is based on.
As stated again further down in the Rules, we refer the right to close and remove this thread if we find that it is not working as intended.
Statement on Schenker Technologies GmbH's warranty for 2nd hand customers
Whoever buys a new XMG or SCHENKER laptop has the benefit of
at least 2 year warranty period with the manufacturer (that's us). The exact length of the warranty is specified on the original invoice. The details on the warranty can be read
here. Here is a key excerpt from our warranty:
The warranty is device-bound and transferable within the warranty period. The person entitled to assert warranty claims under the warranty declaration of Schenker Technologies GmbH is the person entitled to use the product given proof of the date of purchase or delivery by means of the original invoice / the original delivery note and the warranty document.
Technically speaking, you need the original invoice (either from Bestware or one of our commercial resellers) in order to make a warranty claim. But this is only pro-forma, because:
- If the laptop is purchased directly from bestware, the original owner can always request a PDF copy of the invoice through our e-mail support. Other resellers will probably offer the same service.
- We have so far never rejected a warranty claim solely on the fact that a user was not able to send us his or her original invoice. Instead, we strictly use the product's serial number to determine the age and warranty period of each individual unit
In other words: 2nd hand buyers will be able to continue to use the original device warranty. The warranty period starts with the original invoice date (or rather the date when the original user first received the product, which is usually a couple of days after the invoice date). The warranty period does not reset (i.e. does not start from the beginning) in the case of a resale. For example: if a laptop with 24 months warranty is re-sold after 3 months, it will have 21 months of warranty remaining.
If the warranty is void due to any action stated under the section "EXCLUSIONS" in the warranty agreement, it does not matter whether such actions are caused by the original owner or the 2nd hand owner. Our support and service team will treat every device solely based on the condition of the device itself.
For additional warranty notice regarding DIY thermal repaste, please read
this thread.
PRO TIP: if a product's serial number can't be read anymore on the laptop itself, it can still be found on the mainboard - usually nearby or under the memory modules.
Statement on Spare Parts and Keyboards with other languages
2nd hand buyers are always able to request additional spare parts for fair prices from our support team. These include but are not limited to: batteries, power supplies, service covers, RAM, SSDs, screws.
The most critical part will probably be the keyboard: we offer our laptops with up to 25 different keyboard languages. The ideal case would be if the buyer can accept the keyboard language on the device as sold by the seller. When this is not possible, the buyer can later request a replacement keyboard from us. Generally speaking:
- Keycaps on XMG FUSION and XMG NEO are easy to replace and can be sold separately in bag (see video) for around 30€ per set.
- Keyboards on XMG CORE 15 and 17, SCHENKER MEDIA 15 and 17 (2019 and later) and SCHENKER VIA are difficult or almost impossible to replace without risking damage. For these models, we do not offer replacement keyboards or stickers.
- All other models, such as XMG APEX; PRO, ULTRA, SCHENKER SLIM, WORK, DTR have modular keyboards which are relatively easy to replace as a whole unit. In this cases, in the interest of buying a new keyboard, please contact our support for the latest quotation.
Encouragement: Second-hand is OK
Let me add my personal thoughts: I buy a lot of 2nd hand stuff. Most of my camera lenses, my current mobile phone (rooted + LineageOS of course), my first business laptop (refurbished...), most of my paperback books - all 2nd hand. Technology does not get magically worse just because another meatbag™ has unsealed the box or ran some of his software on the device. As long as the device is cleaned, dust is removed from the heatsinks, breadcrumbs between the keycaps removed, the SSD is formatted (removed all partitions), any 2nd hand device is as good as new.
One could also see a second-hand device as something that has gone through an extended burn-in / stress-test period. Most defects on technology occur either within the first few weeks of the products lifetime
or they occur long after the warranty period expired. By buying a second-hand laptop in good condition, you are buying a product that has already stood the test of real-world usage during those crucial first few weeks or months. If the original owner has treated the device well (no fall damage, gentle with the hinges and I/O ports, no scratches on the display, no burn marks in the palm rest), I don't see any reason why a second-hand device would be any less valuable (minus a few percentage points for the warranty that has started to expire) than a brand-new one.
Algorithms used in legal and insurance cases, based on statistics do not agree with my assessment. Check out this example calculator
here (select "Laptop PC" in the dropdown menu). When playing around with such calculators, consider who might have influenced the statistics (including court cases) on which such calculators are based on. For example, insurance companies have an interest in playing down the value of used goods so they can minimize the payments they make in case of lost or stolen devices. For example, according to the generalized calculator linked above, a laptop loses
13% of its value after the
first month of usage. From what? Was it drained of its
Mana while installing Windows Updates and playing Destiny 2?
A better approach: if the second-hand laptop is still available as new, check out the current pricing in our online shop or any reseller and make your own judgement, how much you would deduct from that value for any time period of usage? Keep in mind that any device warranty and our
exceptional support and service will be transferred to the new owner, as explained above. Make a
fair price and
good luck with your bargains!
Credit and Introduction to Rules
The following rules (both General, Additional and Recommendations) have been inspired by the rules of the German
Hardwareluxx Market Place. However, it's not a 1:1 carbon copy of those rules. The rules stated below are carefully re-written, selected and sorted for the specific purpose of this thread.
Please read them carefully word-for-word!
General Rules
- We provide the communication platform (via Reddit) but do not assume any liability for your purchases and sales.
- We would like to point out that we are under the assumption that German law applies to this forum and therefore a warranty claim among private individuals also exists for private 2nd hand sales. For more information about the German law, read this article. If the seller or buyer reside in other countries, those respective laws apply as well. However, there is no unified pan-European law for second-hand goods from private individuals (source). Inform yourself about your responsibilities and rights as a private buyer or seller in your country and in the country of the seller.
- This thread is only for private buyers/sellers without commercial agenda.
- Offers should include all information that is relevant to buyers. More information is better. Please see the section "How your offer should look like" below for details.
- Third parties are not allowed to comment on offers unless they have a genuine interest in taking up the offer. In other words: do not badmouth other users just because you think their prices are too high/too low or their config is unreasonable. The judgement on which offer or request is attractive is solely up the the individual buyeseller. Caveat emptor applies.
- Bids/offers should be made in the thread and not by PM or Chat. This is to ensure fairness and transparency and avoid last-minute "change of minds". After making your bid/offer in the thread, you can jump to PM or Chat to arrange transaction details (payment method, delivery method).
- Binding minimum prices (MP) must be stated in offers. These prices shall be determined by the Seller. Potential customers are not allowed to offers prices that are lower than the minimum price. Exception: If an offer is advertising a Windows license, the seller must clearly indicate whether he intents to give the license key to the 2nd hand buyer. The seller should act with good faith and not use the license key on any other device after the sale. Buyers are free to ask the sellers to take the license key out of their offer for a private, negotiable rebate.
- If the seller receives multiple at or above the minimum price (MP) from multiple buyers, the seller can chose which buyer he will sell to at the seller's discretion. The date (who comes first) is not the deciding factor.
- Alternatively to Rules 5 to 7, sellers can use 3rd party auction platforms for their offers. For example, they can put up the product page on an auction platform such as eBay and link (advertise) to their auction here in this thread. In such a case, potential buyers can make their offers within the framework of the 3rd party auction platform - they do not have to state their offer publicly in this thread. The question on which buyers makes the deal will be resolved under the rules of the specific 3rd party auction platform. In such a case, this thread will only be used to point to the auction page.
- We reserve the right to close or remove this thread at any time if we find that it is not working as intended. We also reserve the right to modify the rules at any given time. Any changes to the rules will be documented in an updated info section below.
Additional Rules
- Requests or offers for services or laptops/computers/products from other brands (including from other BTO resellers) are prohibited. Only laptops that are branded XMG, SCHENKER or TUXEDO are allowed here. This includes laptops with the "de-branded" display lid. See the rating label sticker on the bottom of the laptop for brand information. Alternatively, see the original invoice.
- Offered articles must be within your own sphere of influence at all times. In other words: do not offer devices that are not in your personal possession.
- It is not permitted to offer goods that have been purchased for profit. We reserve the right to delete posts in which new goods are offered on suspicion. In other words: no scalpers.
- If you are offering defective items, this must be clearly stated in the post.
- Hardware that has been operated outside the specifications provided by the manufacturer is generally excluded from any manufacturer's warranty or guarantee. Offering such hardware in the marketplace with a guarantee is deliberate deception. A purchase contract would thus be contestable at any time and could be revoked.
- After a sales has completed, the original offer should not be deleted by the seller. Instead, all posts should be left intact to create a public record. Users who are under the suspicion of editing or removing their content in an abusive manner (to spread confusion, controversy or avoid responsibility) risk to be banned from the sub-reddit.
- If an offer or request has expired (changed your mind or already sold), please edit your post with this kind of update: "/edit: offer expired/sold".
- Sales of Evaluation Samples (ES) will be removed and the user will be banned from the sub-reddit.
- Payment transactions may only be made in currencies recognized by the European Central Bank. In other words: no cryptocurrencies, sorry.
- We reserve the right to permanently block users from our sub-reddit who are noticed with blatant violations of these rules.
Recommendations:
- Find out about the trading partner before you buy and clarify all questions in advance. The users' Reddit history might be a good starting point.
- As these are private sales, the seller can exclude a warranty in advance in his offer. However, this does not exempt him from delivering the goods in the described condition. In the case of private sales there is also no legally prescribed 14-day right of withdrawal (no refund period).
- We generally recommend that the goods be sent insured, so that in the event of a dispute the dispatch is documented.
- After confirmation of the trade, ask for the complete address and telephone number of your trading partner in addition to the bank details.
- If there are delays in processing, this does not necessarily mean the worst. Leave your trading partner a reasonable waiting period and try to contact him. Many things can be clarified much more easily with one call.
- If a system comes with Windows pre-installed, buyers are advised that they might want to format the SSD/HDD and reinstall Windows from scratch for security reasons to avoid any risk of leftover (unintentional) malware or computer virus. The same applies to the USB stick containing the device drivers.
- For sellers who purchased their laptop originally from a German online shop (such as bestware or other German resellers), you can declare to transfer your "Gewährleistungsanspruch" to the next 2nd hand buyer. This will give the buyer additional legal protection for future warranty cases on top of the manufacturers warranty. Here is a example form for such a declaration.
How your offer should look like
Offers from sellers should include
all specifications of the product, including
key components and
BTO options and
keyboard layout/language. Ideally, it should be a
line-to-line copy from the original invoice including the Product ID (e.g. XFU15L19 for XMG FUSION 15) and warranty period.
Offers must include the original invoice date, so that buyers can calculate how much warranty is going to be left on the device. Sellers must include information
in which country they currently reside (see General Rule 2).
If an offer is advertising a Windows license, the seller must clearly indicate whether he intents to
give the license key to the 2nd hand buyer. The seller should act with good faith and not use the license key on any other device after the sale.
Buyers are free to ask the sellers to take the license key out of their offer for a private, negotiable rebate. The offer should also include information about the
condition of the device: are protective sheets removed, are there any
damages or scratches, is the item in reasonably clean condition? If the laptop has any damages, they should be documented with pictures which are linked in the post.
To make an offer more attractive, the seller should
post pictures of the product and all accessories
from all angles regardless of its condition.
Any
suspicious system behavior such as unexpectedly high temperatures, low battery life, strong coil whine, performance issues, instability, crashes, electrical issues should be documented in the offer. The offer may also state the absence of such issues. Sellers are advised to troubleshoot any technical issues with
this thread or by contacting our e-mail support before making any resale offers.
If the original owner has done a
DIY thermal repaste or any other mechanical or thermal modifications on the device, this should be stated in the offer as well. This can be a tricky situation because the potential buyer now needs to evaluate remotely whether or not the original owner did a good job with his or her repaste. It is advised that the original owner adds additional benchmark and temperature information to his offer. In the end, the
long-term temperatures and performance will be the judge of the quality of such a DIY repaste. Regarding our warranty policy on DIY repaste, see
this tread. (
tl;dr: if we find during an in-house inspection of a warranty claim that a repaste has done more harm than good, we might void the warranty and respond with a reasonable but "not for free" repair offer.)
The offer should include information about the
presence or absence of all accessory items such as user manual, USB stick with drivers, original carton, mousepad, adapters, screws, cleaning cloth and power cable including the connction to the wall socket (Mainland EU, Switzerland and UK have different plugs).
Ideally, the condition of the accessory and carton should also be
documented with pictures in the offer.
Offers should include an information whether or not the device will come with a fresh and clean
Windows installation, no matter if purchased with our without license key. Buyers are advised that they might want to
format the SSD/HDD and reinstall Windows from scratch for security reasons to avoid any risk of leftover (unintentional) malware or computer virus. The same applies to the USB stick containing the device drivers.
How to post and react to an unspecific "looking for" request
If you can't find a suitable offer, maybe you might find a seller by posting a request. Obviously, requests can be more vague than offers. You should include a list of XMG or SCHENKER models that might fall within your interest plus your minimum CPU, GPU, SSD and RAM config and your budget.
If a potential seller finds your request, his or her counter-offer should follow the rules stated above. In other words: offers that are in reaction to a "looking for"-request are in no way treated differently from offers that were originally posted to find a buyer.
Both buyers and sellers are required to do their due dilligence to make the transaction fair and pleasant for everyone involved.
How to use the thread
Pictures can be uploaded and linked from any
image hosting service.
Replies can be sorted either by "Hot" or by "New". If you sort by "New", the newest replies will be displayed at the top.
If you have any questions regarding the rules, please
send me a PM or a
Reddit Chat request. Keep responses to the thread solely for requests, offers and bids.
Alternatives to this thread: According to General Rule #9, you are allowed to link to your offers on 3rd party auction platforms and market places from this thread. Here is a list of placed where you can try to sell your second-hand laptop.
- Europe/Worldwide:
- /HardwareSwapEU
- eBay
- Other buy & sell section in regional computer enthusiast forums
- Facebook Market Place
- Local/Regional Buy & Sell Facebook Groups (use the search function in Facebook for to find appropriate groups)
- Germany/Austria:
- eBay Kleinanzeigen
- Hardwareluxx Market Place
- France:
- Rakuten France (formerly PriceMinister)
- leboncoin
- Spain:
If you posted an offer or request to any such group and if your offer aligns with the guidelines in this thread, feel free to post a link to your offer below. If your offer or request has expired (either because you changed your mind or you already sold), please edit your post with this kind of update: "
/edit: offer expired/sold".
If you have additional recommendations (especially ones that are specific to your region) or any other feedback,
send me a PM or
Reddit Chat request.
Thank you for your fair participation! // Tom
